Lithium-ion Batteries: A Growing Safety Risk

Shaun: Welcome to Health and Safety Uncut, a British Safety Council podcast with me, Dr. Shaun Davis. Today's episode features Matt Humby, Senior Technical Consultant at Fire Chief Global, to discuss lithium ion batteries, a growing fire risk, but why? Welcome, Matt.

Matt: Hello, Shaun. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I'm really excited and I want to thank the British Safety Council as well for inviting me on. I hope everyone finds it interesting and an educational experience and podcast for everyone. So thank you very much.

Shaun: Pleasure. I'm sure we will. So let's dive into it then. Matt, tell us about lithium ion batteries.

Matt: Well, the use of lithium ion batteries, Shaun, are now 100 percent part of our lives. let's remember they're in all of our portable devices, electric vehicles. They're in things like renewable energy storage systems, which we're seeing more of:

Battery energy storage systems, domestic battery energy storage systems, so they're the ones that you can have at home if you've got solar panels, so they're 100 percent part of our lives.

Shaun: Mm hmm.

Matt: However, from a fire side, myself and FireChief as a business are seeing that there's been an increase in serious fires from them across the workplaces and residential fires as well.

So it's essential those in charge of such environments, really assess and control this risk. And, this should include greater and wider education based on, this fire risk of lithium ion batteries, including recycling lithium ion batteries. I'm terrible at repeating myself, and I will repeat this over and over again, Shaun, but it's gonna be about a mindset change on how we use, store, and dispose of lithium ion batteries, because there is a huge increase in fires in the recycling sector as well. So the fire risk is not an emerging risk anymore. But it's a present risk that's in our lives, and more so than, there's ever been before. So we just need to be aware of it.

Shaun: So if we look at that then, a closer look at the fire risk, tell us a little bit more about that.

If I play back to what I think you've just said, the hidden but present, you know, mobile phones, vapes, laptops, etc. But what is the fire risk? Is it something we should be scared of? Is it something that is, a real hidden danger? Or is there other aspects to it?

Matt: Again, brilliant question.

So, let's put it into some context. lithium ion batteries are amazing products. Okay. When you really think about it, they've, changed the way we live. They've changed the way we work. They have changed our lives 100%. Now, Probably like you, I love my gadgets, bluetooth speakers, got my earpods, don't ask me about my, lithium ion battery shark hoover, I'm absolutely obsessed with it, it's a brilliant, brilliant product, thank you shark. So we all love our gadgets, however, as I said, we just need to have a mindset change on how we treat, use, and again, how we recycle lithium ion batteries. They are very safe, indeed.

The chances of you or an organization having a thermal runaway event within a product that's got a lithium ion battery in is very, very low. So the risk is low. the consequences though of a thermal event is catastrophic or can be catastrophic.

Shaun: And what is that? What is thermal runaway?

Matt: So, thermal runaway is a chemical reaction that happens inside a battery.

In effect, once a battery goes into thermal runaway, a chemical reaction, you can't actually stop them, you can't actually stop it. Um, but from a fire side, um, if, if a device or an electric vehicle goes into thermal runaway, it's about how you can stop that propagation from cell to cell. So thermal runaway, it's a, it's, it's a chemical reaction that happens with inside a battery.

Shaun: Okay. Perhaps we'll come back to that a little bit later there as well. So in terms of the history of, of, uh, these batteries, when did they, they really start to come into our lives?

Matt: Okay, so when we go on, when we do our CPD ones, I always take people back to the 1980s on the journey. I love the 1980s. Um, it was, it was great for music, fashion and technology.

Um, so let's go back to the 1970s. And really it was a team of global scientists that began developing what would become the lithium ion battery. A type of rechargeable battery that would eventually power everything that was about to come into our lives or that was around the corner. Things like the early mobile phone of the 1980s, the suitcase phone. Lethal Weapon 2, it's a great 80s film. And the detective had the suitcase phone there. So, so, that was when it really started. And it was really during the oil crisis of the 1970s, um, Stanley Whittingham, an English chemist, uh, working for ExxonMobil at the time, started exploring the idea of a, of a new battery, one that could recharge on its own in a short amount of time, and perhaps one day lead to fossil free energy.

So we're looking back at the 1970s. And there's a great quote, Shaun, from him that says, uh, that he said, um, "Lithium ion batteries have revolutionized modern day living. Um, lithium ion batteries have impacted the lives of everyone in the world." And how true is that? Look how many devices you've got. But even back into the late 1900s, and people sometimes forget this, we had electric vehicles being used and developed, you know, in the 1900s, which is incredible.

So the history of them is quite amazing indeed. Today, they're now becoming lighter, smaller, and more powerful than we could ever imagine back in the 1970s, 80s, and even the 1990s. And while this is a good thing, because they're going to be able to store a lot more energy for longer, um, which means you don't need to charge your devices so much, which means we're not using so much power, okay, so we're reducing our costs. It's going to create a bigger challenge due to the huge power that they can hold in a very, very small space and how we manage end of life of products and batteries as well. You know, what are we going to do with them? Because remember, batteries have a, have a life cycle of between three, five and seven years.

What are we going to do with all these lithium ion batteries?

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: Valuable material isn't it? So, how we recycle them is, is really key as well. Uh, and I don't know if you remember, but there was a statement from the United Nations, and I think it was at the Paris Agreement, and they in effect said that the world needs to become net zero by 2050.

Now that's a huge challenge and a huge goal. It's not that far away, is it? Next year is 2025. I know it's 25 years away, but

Shaun: When you talk about the context of these being in circulation since the 80s and 90s

Matt: Exactly.

Shaun: It's not that big a jump forwards to 2050 at all.

Matt: It's not. So we're not that far away.

So it's going to be interesting to see because I'm a believer in we're seeing an increase in temperatures globally. So lithium ion batteries are going to play a part in helping the world become net zero, helping our country become net zero. So they're definitely playing their part. Uh, and they're going to continue to, especially with transportation.

So just to briefly give you a stat, you know, between 22 percent and 30 percent of global emissions comes from current transportation. So if we can then change that to electric vehicles, electric transportation. Look how much you can reduce those, those global emissions. You know, you can more or less take that down to, to, to a couple of percent.

How much of a difference is that going to make? So they're playing their part in net zero. But like I said, there are big concerns regarding the fire risk.

Shaun: So there's obviously that positive aspect that you've talked about there. Is there a kind of a more negative, uh, darker side we should be thinking of? I, for example, heard of this, this phrase thermal runaway. Uh, you mentioned then about, uh, Disposal of these is a, is a, is a, you know, the interest of being balanced.

Is there other things that we should be looking at and other risks we should be thinking about?

Matt: Yeah, thermal runaway is, is, is a very complex subject and one I get asked about an awful lot. Um, Especially in items or, or, or, or areas such as battery energy storage systems when batteries go into thermal runaway within that situation can be devastating.

I know battery energy storage systems, um, in America, we've, we've lost firefighters through tackling of them because they're so complex and challenging. Um, and also, uh, electric vehicle fires can be very complex. And the fire rescue service really need to understand what they're dealing with because these are not like any other fire indeed.

Um, We've, we've actually produced a very simple image and we're happy to share it with, with you guys at the British Safety Council and it explains in effect, um, why a battery goes into thermal runaway. There are sort of eight main causes of thermal runaway, um, and to give you a couple, constantly overcharging a battery, charging a battery with an unregulated device, uh, can send a battery into thermal runaway and we've seen it. We've seen reports recently of a house fire that was charged with an unregulated device, um, exposing batteries to extreme heat. Um, again, can send, um, a battery to them run away and recycling sector if people throw batteries away.

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: They're gonna get crushed.

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: You know, it's very easy. Shaun, isn't it to throw a battery in a bin?

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: That's your job done. But you don't realize the consequences of your actions. Because then that battery goes into the waste recycling sector. Uh, and fires can start very, very quickly.

Shaun: And they do.

I'm a non executive director for a waste management company. And it's a very current and live risk. So, it's not this abstract theoretical concept that it might happen. It does happen.

Matt: It does happen. And, and, I think just literally the other day I was reading a report. Uh, one of the big waste recycling companies are suffering a fire a day, um, you know, through through lithium and batteries, and we're seeing, um, these recycling centers. One has burnt down through an electric toothbrush. So again, it comes back, and I'm terrible at repeating myself, but it comes back about a mindset change. People need to be a little bit more educated on on on on this risk.

Um, and remember, um, OEM manufacturers have suffered issues with batteries as well. So let's briefly go back to 2016, if you can remember the Samsung phone instances where, where, where Samsung had a problem, uh, within their manufacturing process, where, where, you know, some of the phones were just spontaneously catching fire, going into thermal runaway.

Um, and that was due to a manufacturing issue that they had within the battery. Uh, and it actually put them back a long way because at that time they were fighting Apple, um, to get market share. But OEMs do have issues with lithium ion batteries.

Shaun: OEMs being the original manufacturer?

Matt: Original equipment manufacturer.

It is rare. But we are seeing it. So they've got lots of procedures in place as you know.

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: But you can't be a hundred percent sure all of the time and as I said using an incorrect charger for your device can send a battery into thermal runaway. So all these things that can happen with thermal runaway can be stopped if we just have a little bit of a mindset change.

And as I said, recent numbers on lithium batteries in the household rubbish. Uh, The last 12 months led to 1, 200 fires in the UK waste stream, which to me is quite an incredible figure, um, compared to 700 in 2022. Um, and this is only increasing.

Shaun: So Matt, are there different types of lithium ion batteries? I've heard people talk about lithium batteries, lithium ion. What, what's the, the, the difference if there is one?

Matt: Okay. Yes. Well, there is. Um, so. You can have a lithium battery. So a lithium battery is the type of battery that you can't recharge. So, they will have one or two cells inside them, and they're the type of battery that you may get in a remote control, like a triple AA, or a computer mouse, or maybe a smoke alarm that after five or ten years you need to replace its battery.

So they're non rechargeable lithium batteries. In general, very, very safe. Lithium ion batteries are slightly different. Lithium ion batteries have, have ions inside them, and, and, and they're manufactured with potentially different chemicals inside them as well. So lithium ion batteries are the type of batteries that you can recharge.

So a lithium ion battery will be in things like your mobile phone, your laptop, your tablets, electric vehicles, that type of thing. Uh, and they're called, uh, secondary cell construction types batteries, meaning they can be reused and charged over and over again. Um, and in effect, there are then up to 12 different chemistry types of lithium ion batteries.

So different chemistries inside the battery that, that, that powers them. Um, and in, in generally, in general cases, sorry, there's, there's about six main types of lithium ion battery chemistry types in use in our devices. So lithium ion phosphate, um, NMC type batteries, nickel, manganese, cobalt, LCO type batteries, lithium cobalt, cobalt oxide, to name a few. So, so, so yeah, it becomes quite complex, um, but different types of lithium ion batteries with different chemistry makeups, um, can potentially cause different types of thermal events and thermal runaway fires.

Shaun: Right.

So with regards to disposal of these lithium ion batteries then, what are you seeing and hearing about in, in, in that area?

Matt: It's a massive problem for the recycling sector. Um, they've already got tsunami, Shaun, of of batteries being thrown away. So at the moment we're looking at about 5 million vapes being thrown away weekly in the UK.

Um, that's a huge figure. Um, and at the moment we're looking at about 1200 fires in the UK waste system in the past 12 months, um, with lithium ion batteries, the main cause. And. To give you an example, 2022, you were looking at about 700.

Shaun: Right.

Matt: And this is only increasing. And I fear we could be heading to somewhere near 2, 000 fires in 2024.

Um, it's, it's massive. Um, and, and it's, it's, don't, don't forget the consequences of fire in the recycling sector is, is costing them a huge amount of money. It's putting people's lives at risk. Um, and the poor Fire Rescue Service is putting them under a huge amount of pressure as well. So, um, To answer your question, we must have better and clear education on this risk.

Um, batteries get crushed in the recycling center. You know, it's, it's very easy, as I said, for you to just to put your batteries in a bin and then that's your job done. Um, your consequences of doing that will have another consequence further down the line. Um, so, yeah, it's about, it's about education. And I note a recent EU study.

And I've read this study and it stated that by 2025, 78 million lithium ion batteries will be thrown away globally every day. Um, and that's a major concern, not only with them being thrown away, but it seems a terrible waste, doesn't it?

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: Of materials.

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: Valuable materials that could be recycled and used again.

So we seem to be in this this throwaway culture.

Shaun: Well, I'm a non executive director of a waste management company and these are real things that we are seeing and hearing about. Along with gas canisters from barbecues being disposed of creating issues. I know of a number of of issues that we've had in in facilities.

I know of other organizations where it's manifested in big issues involving fire evacuation needed the fire authorities in, I mean, big, a real big risk. So it's, it's, it's not just this abstract academic idea that these things might happen. They are actually happening right, right now.

Matt: Yeah, they are happening right now.

Uh, and as I said, again, it comes back to this education. Um, we've done studies and, and, and I think we did a study a couple of years ago and it said at least, uh, 25 percent of, of young adults admitted to throwing away a battery. So, um, it's a big, it's a big concern.

Shaun: Another phrase that I've heard or, or, or phrases that I've heard around lithium ion batteries is off gasses.

People that have heard of that, what, what does that mean? What, what does that actually mean? risk does that present?

Matt: Again, Shaun, it's a brilliant question, and it's a question we're being asked a lot more about. Um, so we've spoken about thermal runaway. Um, the issue with, with off gassing a vapor cloud explosion, um, comes when you're dealing with more bigger batteries, such as electric vehicles, um, or maybe a battery energy storage system.

Um, now, once they go into thermal runaway, such as things like a lithium ion battery in a battery energy storage system, being a very confined space, Um, and, and what you get is you get a build up of a vapor cloud containing very dangerous gases, such as

Shaun: Visible, non visible, invisible?

Matt: Um, they are, they are, they are visible, they are visible.

Um, early stages of off gassing, the gases will be, will be, will be heavier than air, so they will, they will be potentially floor level, but as they heat up, they will be lighter than air, and then they will start to float higher up, and above the fire. Um, and you get gas, uh, off gasses such as, such as hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen chloride, carbon monoxide, to name a few.

And, and, and, uh, you know, they're not gases you want to be nasties, yep.

Shaun: All the nasties,

Matt: just to name a few. Um, now if they're produced in a very enclosed space, as I said, we have what's called a vapour cloud that can be explosive. Uh, and these gases, um, are also evident in smaller devices, such as mobile phones and laptops, but in general they're not going to be in an enclosed space.

But when we're talking about bigger, bigger battery packs, electric vehicles and battery energy storage systems, in an enclosed space, we get this. this potential for a vapor cloud explosion. Um, and, and it can be catastrophic. Um, and as I said, the more gases that have been accumulated in space, the more violent the deflagration could be, uh, and the peak generated may even break structures. So we've seen vapor cloud explosions where, where containers have exploded. And I've seen a video where a, a trailer has exploded, um, sent to me from a fire rescue service in America through a through a chain reaction of a cloud explosion. So yeah, very nasty indeed.

Shaun: So so what what are we suggesting, or, are you suggesting that that organizations do, for example, is it something that you'd expect to fire risk assessment to pick up? Is that a good starting point and how would people go about considering this in their operational risk management?

Matt: Okay, so it again, fire risk assessments are going to play a part.

Um, if we go back a little bit, if, if we get to a point where lithium ion batteries are the biggest cause of, say, domestic fires in the UK. So currently the biggest cause of a domestic in the UK is from cooking. It's 45%, which is a huge figure. If in domestic fires, the biggest cause of fires is from lithium ion batteries, we've got a bit of a, we have a big problem on our hands because that is not statistically data we want to see. So again, it comes back to this education. Um, over the past four years, insurance companies have changed their status on lithium ion batteries and devices that contain them. Um, and as I said at the beginning, they used to say it's an emerging fire risk, it's now recognized as a fire risk.

So a fire risk assessment should be definitely something that an organization, a business should have in its workplace, um, and it should form part lithium ion battery storages. If they've got a lot of lithium ion batteries should form part of that process. as a fire risk assessment. I definitely think so.

And I'm sure you, you agree.

Shaun: Yeah, I think it's got to form part of that, that broader consideration of the equipment that you're using. What about things such as laptops, you've mentioned, you mentioned earlier on kind of everyday items, mobile phones, laptops, most, if not all organizations have IT functions, teams where you're churning these things over.

Um, What would you be advising them to do from a very practical level in terms of thinking about how they might manage that?

Matt: Okay, so so fire risk assessments of lithium ion batteries, so it all goes back to the the regulatory reform fire safety order 2005. This means that in effect that the responsible person generally the owner Uh, the employer or the occupier is required to actively pursue and maintain fire safety.

Okay, you know that. Take responsibility for their staff and visitors on their premises. This includes a legal requirement for a fire risk assessment undertaken by a competent person or a fire risk assessor on your, on your, on your premises. Um, so a typical workplace such as a public space, um, will have many devices containing lithium ion batteries.

So, Shaun in, in effect, it makes sense to assess the fire risk that, that, that these devices could pose, um, and have an actioning plan, um, to mitigate against, against those risks. Um, some lithium-ion battery risks are mobile and some are uh, some are, uh, static. Uh, but it could be a case that, uh, the handling of lithium-ion batteries in an organization, could be handling lots of lithium ion batteries. Um, and there could be organizations that deal with damaged lithium ion batteries. Um, and there are, and I've seen them, uh, there are big power tool companies out there that, that, have to recall, you know, people send back a power tool because it's faulty.

They, these companies will store these damaged lithium ion batteries. So, so that should form, if that's a business, it should definitely have a fire risk assessment in place.

Shaun: I suppose if I think back to the opening of, of our conversation, you talked about them being ever present, but hidden. Um, and around us, maybe not, not as evident or as visible as perhaps you might think and hidden in different everyday items.

Do you think there's a general lack of awareness, understanding, um, and if so, what, what can we do? What should employers do? What can people do to kind of raise their own awareness?

Matt: Yeah, identifying the scale of the risk present. Um, uh, this, this is a, this is a key area. So it's about identifying, as I said, the risk present, and this could include, so if your organization, and I'm sure you, you, um, have old laptops for employees, or ex employees, or laptops that have been damaged.

Um, where are you storing them? You know, are they being stored next to flammable liquids? Are they being stored in just an office because there's nowhere else to store them? Uh, and I've I had a call from a fire rescue service from a business that stores over 500 laptops in just a discarded office because they just didn't know what to do with them.

Now that that's a risk, especially if they're damaged or they're broken. We don't know the history of these. So that's definitely an area. And again, where is your electric vehicle fleet being charged? Um, many organizations are having that transition over to electric vehicles

Shaun: The environmental agenda is growing.

Matt: Exactly. Exactly. You know, they're playing their part. Um, we will all many years ahead. And there's a long time ahead. I probably won't be here, but you know, eventually there won't be any ice vehicles. They'll be, you know, really, really old. So, um, we're gonna, we're gonna have this transition. Uh, businesses, where are you charging your, your, your, your electric vehicles.

And again, we've seen electric vehicles being charged next to flammable oil tanks, flammable gas tanks. So, uh, gas pipes being charged next to a fire accident. You may, you may think, No, that's crazy, Matt. They can't be. Yeah, yeah, we've seen it. And I've talked to fire risk assessors. So it's it's again comes back to this education

Shaun: So to play back to what you said then again, you've talked about the importance of risk awareness, risk management, kind of risk assessment, kind of raising awareness now from from our conversation, I understand that Fire Chief Global have provided one solution, they've got their eight step halo battery safety plan.

So can you give us a bit more information about that?

Matt: Yes, so We do a lot of CPDs. Um, our level one core CPD is absolutely free. I present it. Um, and it's just a basic understanding, um, an educational CPD fully accredited on lithium ion batteries.

Shaun: Right.

Matt: So if you don't know anything about lithium ion batteries, uh, and you want to educate yourself more. Please come on. Come on, of course. Um, we actually carry out surveys at Fire Chief Global as well on these CPDs. And just to go back to your fire risk assessment question, we carried out a survey of more than 500 organizations between September 2023 and February 2024, which revealed 71 percent of respondents had not even updated their fire risk assessment to cover the risk of a lithium ion battery fire. Um, and only 15 percent had done so. Now, that's, that's quite a startling figure.

Shaun: It is, and do you know the thing that's really standing out to me? When people quote statistics, they'll often be saying 2015 or 16 or 2021 we saw. You've just said that's, that's less than six months ago.

Matt: That's six months ago.

Shaun: It's really, really, really current and

Matt: Yeah.

Shaun: and evident that there's a gap there.

Matt: 100%. Um, so again, Shaun, it comes back to that lack of awareness, doesn't it? In businesses and organizations. I am hopeful that this figure is going to come down, because it was quite startling to us that so many businesses hadn't even bothered having a fire risk assessment or even thought about it on lithium battery risks.

And we're not, let's put it in context. We're not talking about a tiny business with one or two employees with just a couple of laptops and mobiles. We're talking about small medium businesses that have got a lot of lithium ion batteries and a lot of computer equipment and they may be handling lithium ion batteries.

So it comes back to education and awareness, um, on this, on this risk. So yes, we did produce what was called the Fire Chief Halo eight step plan and our team looked into this, uh, and in effect it has eight segments in a in a very easy format to follow. So it includes proactive actions you can take and reactive actions all businesses can take, and this really forms a great foundation for not only this risk, but a fire risk assessment. Um, and it's it's more or less based on the hierarchy of controls process, which I'm sure you're very well aware off. Um, and, and that's obviously the process to reduce and eliminate risks in the workplace.

Shaun: So the other thing that's come to mind is, if you look back and for the, the, the safety, health and wellbeing professionals listen to this, they will be familiar with some really catastrophic incidents happened in oil and gas in, um, uh, rail and other transportation, and that foreseeability aspect of it, and looking forwards, and people say, we really should have done more, sooner.

This to me has a real feel to that, that people should be getting out right in front of this as early as they can, because it is a known risk with known issues surrounding it. What we don't want to be doing is finding that we have some huge catastrophic, catastrophic event involving lithium ion batteries that suddenly finds its way into the syllabus of an exam because it went, as a case study, that went terribly wrong.

We want to be preventing that and presenting ourselves as a profession as well as we can by getting right out in front of it.

Matt: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And in effect, that's why we put this Fire Chief Halo eight step plan together, because there wasn't anything out there. It was, it was a complete lack of education and awareness for organizations.

We were being asked, you know, what can we do? So, as I said, it's got the eight segments, it's got the proactive ones you can take, and they are time based, Shaun, so they're not going to cost an organization any, any money at all. Um, it's just time based actions that they can take. And then the, the, the bottom four are, are the reactive actions.

So in bigger organizations, you will have people that we're going to have to tackle a fire. You know, you've got your fire safety managers, your fire marshals, um, and we're not advocating people become firefighters. And that's, that's not what, what I'm going to, going to advocate, especially lithium battery fires.

But if a fire is small and if people are trapped and if you need to evacuate people and if it's safe to do so, you know, you, you have to be responsible and try and tackle a small fire. That's why fire extinguishers are there. They're a first aid measure to tackle a small fire from getting out of control.

Yeah, there are lots of things, as you said, businesses and organisations can now do, and again, we can provide the eight step plan to the British Safety Council, um, for everyone listening, would be great, so yeah, we can provide that. In effect, and I'm terrible at repeating myself, but it comes back to that education and awareness.

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: And they're the very first steps to educate yourself on this risk and and make yourself aware of the risks

Shaun: And so for people looking to educate inform kind of become more aware What what guidance standards and regulations are out there specific for um lithium ion battery fires?

Matt: It's a very complex area, Shaun, as I'm sure you're aware.

While there are standards for overall performance and safety of lithium ion batteries, then there is none yet in the UK standards specifically for their safety performance. Um, so you've got things like the IEC 62133, sets out requirements for tests and safety and performance of lithium ion batteries in portable and electric devices.

So that will include mobile phones and laptops. Um, so those standards are there, but there just needs to be more emphasis on, on, uh, regulating things like, uh, chargers that, that are, that are in the marketplace that haven't been tested to any, to any standard. Um, we're seeing a lot of people, um, modify batteries.

You know, you can buy home kits to modify your battery to make it even more powerful. Some of these e bikes and e scooters can now do 60 miles an hour. It's crazy. That's, that's, that's a motorbike.

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: It's not an e-scooter or an e-bike, but, but you can, you can modify batteries.

Shaun: Yeah. It's really interesting you've said that because I was with my godson just at the weekend and he said, he was telling me about a friend of his who had been and had his e scooter modified.

Matt: Okay.

Shaun: To I didn't think about the the the battery implications I thought more about the speed implications because what they're saying is we've enhanced it and it can go so there's multi aspects It's multi dimensional. But your your point I think you're making is you're kind of interfering with the the the integrity and the structure of it which in Itself is a risk which we all know is is is is not smart.

Matt: No, it's not smart.

People are modifying them at home, you know, inexpensive kits. Everyone wants more power out of their battery, but this is an unregulated market. And we've seen fires where people have modified their batteries. Um, so there's lots more that needs to be done, Shaun. Uh, and I feel, um, we're supporting, uh, the charity, the Electrical Safety First Bill, which is, which is really important.

Um, and we're supporting that bill, uh, and, and, and they've, they've drafted in collaboration with partners, including the National Fire Chief Council, London Fire Brigade, Zurich Insurance, to name a few, Fire Chief Global, we're supporting this bill. Uh, and it's going to Parliament, um, and hopefully it will tighten the regulations on, as we've described over this podcast a number of areas that need tightening up. And very briefly the bill will cover three main areas safety assurance um a safety assessment by the UK government approved body for all e bikes and e scooters and their lithium ion batteries before they enter the UK market. So that's really important before they enter the UK market.

Responsible disposal. So requiring the UK government to make regulations for safe disposal of lithium ion batteries at the end of their, their life. Remember lithium ion batteries do have a life. Um, you know, it's normally, depending on how you use a lithium battery, it could be three, five, or seven years.

But eventually you'll notice maybe your mobile phone when you're charging two or three times during the day rather than when you got it. Do you remember? It was, it's brilliant.

Shaun: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: I haven't charged it for two days.

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: It's fantastic. Uh, so, so lithium ion batteries have a, have a, have a life as well. So, we have to remember that.

And comprehensive fire safety. So the UK government to have a responsibility for enhancing safe usage, charging and storing practices for these products, including setting aside standards for conversion kits, which we've just spoken about. Which are very popular and can be very dangerous. And charging systems as well.

So, that's what the bill covers, those three ends. So, we hope we're moving in a better direction. It's taken time, but, you know, we just hope it's going to move in a better direction.

Shaun: Well, they all sound, I'm sure people listening will agree, they sound very practical, very reasonable, very achievable.

Matt: Yeah.

Shaun: Um, is there a, is there a time scale that we, you anticipate these things, um, going through the parliamentary process or is it too early to tell?

Matt: It's too early to tell. Yeah. It's, it's really too early to tell, Shaun. Um, it, it's taken us so many years to get to this point. I mean, I spoke about lithium ion batteries and, and the fire risk five, six years ago.

And honestly, some people just probably thought I was a bit crazy because they said, sorry, I've never heard of it. We don't have a problem with lithium ion batteries. Um, look, the good thing is when, when the awareness is there and it's great that the British Safety Council are doing podcasts like this because your listeners want to educate and understand more about risks. And this is definitely a risk that they should do.

Shaun: Yeah.

Matt: A time scale. Yeah, it's just, it's probably too early.

Shaun: Okay. I, I think it's really important that we give practical tips. I think it's, it's great that we've, we've heard some fantastic and very fascinating insights. I think as we start to kind of draw this podcast to a close, I think practical tips are always really helpful for people.

So what, what tips would you be able to give listeners about being more aware and, uh, more educated on the current fire risks?

Matt: Okay, that's great of you to say so, Shaun, and okay, we'll give some free tips out for people. Okay, again, a mindset change. You know, when you go home tonight after listening to the podcast, just think about where you're charging, maybe your mobile phone, or your electric hoover, lithium battery hoover.

Love my shark hoover. Um, you know, don't charge these devices. Um, while you're all asleep or out of the house. Okay, so just have a little bit more of a mindset change, uh, about how you're charging them and the times you're charging them.

Shaun: Mm.

Matt: And I'm sure, I used to, and I'm sure everyone does this, you know, your mobile phone runs out and at the end of the day, you put it on charge and you all go to sleep.

Potentially it's a risk. And if you charge a mobile phone while it's still on, all that happens is it will charge to 100 percent and then it will kick in because you've left it on. . And it will start to use a bit of battery power and then it will charge again. So it's constantly doing that cycle, which really a phone doesn't like to do.

So just review your habits of charging mobile phones and devices. Only use equipment and chargers supplied by reputable manufacturers. So try and buy the proper charger from a reputable manufacturer. We've all got those, those quite cheap chargers that we did want, but actually you'll realize that they, they take forever to charge your mobile device.

Your device will actually get hot. And we've seen, as I said earlier, some fires there was one recently in Norwich of a fire, a house fire from, from a reputable charger. Make, inspections of your batteries. You know, if you've dropped your mobile phone or laptop, just have a look. We, we, we have seen instances where someone's dropped their mobile phone and three weeks later it's gone into Thermal Runaway.

So it doesn't happen overnight. So it could be over a period of days or weeks. You know, you've only just slightly damaged your battery, but it could go into Thermal Runaway further down the line. So just inspect them. Um, and then for businesses, ensure safe handling of batteries. If a business has got lots of lithium ion batteries, store them away from flammable liquids, store them away from fire exits.

I know, you know, it may sound silly. Oh, you know, you'll probably say, Matt, no, surely not. But we have seen it, people storing them next to fire exits, next to flammable liquids. Um, and a tip for home charging, as I said, going back to home charging, don't leave devices on charge the whole time. Even battery manufacturers will say there's an optimum charge range for a product.

From an electric vehicle to a laptop to your mobile phone, it will give you longer life. So charge it up to 80 percent and then let it drop to 20 and then charge from 20 to 80. Okay, so and a couple of extra tips. It will save you money because you're not leaving your device on charge the whole time.

Save organizations money if they're not, if they're constantly leaving them on time. It will give you a longer life of your battery and device because you're only charging it to 80, let it drop to 20. That's a nice optimum range. Um, and it's safer as well. So, so that, that, that's another one.

Just maybe gets, get your staff trained just to be aware of lithium ion batteries, especially if you have an organization that's got a lot of them. So just make people aware of of the risks surrounding them. And there's some of the tips that you can help reduce and mitigate it against.

Shaun: So if I was to put you on the spot then now and say one, one thing you would want listeners to do differently, having listened to this podcast, what would that one thing be?

Matt: That one thing would be monitor when you are charging your battery, your batteries. Remember what you're charging and where you're charging it and don't leave it on charge. Please reduce your risk, and that is a tiny thing you can do, but you will reduce your risk.

Shaun: Well, that's fantastic. Well, thank you for joining us today, Matt.

It's been a pleasure to have you. I've certainly learnt a number of things that I did not know, and the tips in particular were, were great for me to learn more. The Fire Chief Academy runs two CPD accredited courses to help fire and safety professionals understand and manage the fire risks associated with lithium ion batteries.

 

Links will be in the episode description.

The British Safety Council have created a free guide storing batteries in the workplace. Download it now from the link in the episode description and thank you all.