Business risk is also business opportunity

Shaun: Hello and welcome to this edition of the British Safety Council podcast, Health and Safety Uncut. 

I'm pleased today to be joined by Ian Cooke. He's the Audit, Consultancy and Culture Change Director at the British Safety Council. Ian has a strong track record in health, safety and well-being compliance across training, consultancy and auditing services. 

Having worked across construction, manufacturing and engineering with previous experience at NEBOSH. Ian's known for blending commercial acumen with deep technical expertise and he champions a proactive and people focused approach to compliance. With extensive knowledge of legislation and industry standards, Ian's also highly experienced in designing tailored programs that will suit a range of client needs. Ian, nice to have you. 

Ian: Nice to be here. 

Shaun: Well, thanks for joining us on Health and Safety Uncut Ian. 

Let's start if we can, by finding out a bit more about you. 

And what does health and safety mean to you? 

How have you got here to the British Safety Council? 

Ian: Yes, I think health and safety is an interesting career choice. 

It was my first career choice. I think at heart I'm a scientist and I, I love the fact that health and safety is the science of people at work. 

So, I kind of fell in love with it from an opportunity that NEBOSH gave me to represent them externally many years ago, travelled around the UK island and got to speak to many, you know, sort of passionate health and safety and environmental professionals. 

It really gave me an insight into what was going on out there and also the level of competence that that this was a career that could give back so much. 

You're always learning, the topics are very broad. 

You know, health and safety and environmental professionals touch on so many areas of, of, of what happens in a business. 

And I think that's something else that is passionate for me internally as well, is how businesses operate all through my, you know, younger years working part time for a variety of organizations like McDonald's and Sainsbury's and Quick Save.  

These kind of large-chain organizations, seeing how they operate, what, what makes them unique, how do they efficiently deliver their products. 

I've always been fascinated by that. 

Shaun: So when you say you're a scientist, are you a chemist or biologist or social scientist? 

What, what's your, what's your real background? 

Ian: I have an A-level in Chemistry but I wouldn't make... that wouldn't make me a scientist per SE, but I have a passion for science. 

So I read on it regularly and, you know, I like science in in many aspects of it. 

So and then obviously that passion allows me to sort of, I suppose, fulfil that appetite at work. 

Because as we know, a lot of science, whether it's COSHH, whether it's vibration, noise, all the types of hazards that we have in health and safety, They're, they're, they're interesting as a concept. 

Shaun: Yeah. Good. 

You mentioned then how you found yourself in safety and, and it's in my experience, safety often finds people through a variety of other routes and that's but that's certainly my kind of experience. 

I always think it found me rather than I found it. 

Would you say that was a similar experience for you? 

Did you go out looking for a career in safety or did you start down a different route and safety found you? 

Ian: I started down a different route. 

So, I started as business development executive with NEBOSH and they were looking for somebody to represent them externally and support their learning partner network. 

So I didn't really apply to get into safety in that way. 

But it was it was from working with NEBOSH obviously that you kind of fall into it and that technical exposure started to occur over a number of years. 

NEBOSH was very good to me. 

They invested into qualifications that they obviously provide, and I was then... being me, I like to put it into practice. 

So I volunteered, you know, I used to volunteer and put a lot of hours back into consultancy with local businesses in Leicester. 

I was also involved in the Safety Groups UK program where I re-established Leicester's Occupational Safety and Health Association and work with businesses around Leicester just providing advice, presentations. Obviously, I've got a good network of contacts through through my travels. 

Shaun: Very good. 

And building on that, you're presenting at the SHW Live conference. 

So, what're you going to be focusing on there, what you're bringing to that event? 

Ian: So for this conference this year, I'm looking at the, I suppose the disruptive events that businesses face at the moment. We, we live in a volatile, ever changing, almost chaotic world. At times it's difficult for businesses to plan. 

So I'll be speaking about, you know, what resilience can businesses put in place in terms of their organizational management systems and also what impact that has on the people that work for them and, and how they can better support their employees through these difficult times. 

Shaun: So, it's got a cultural people impact thread, is that what you're saying? 

Ian: Yes, there is. 

I think there's two. 

There's two as we know the climate and the culture, there's that interaction of the people in the system. 

So I think there's those two ends which is, it makes for an interesting topic and how businesses manage those disruptions as well. 

Shaun: Very good. So organizational and personal resilience are big topics still and will continue to be I think for quite some time. 

So in your experience, what can organisations and individuals to, to a certain extent, do to plan, manage and mitigate risk and be resilient and I guess responsive? 

Ian: Yeah, of course, if we start with the organization as, as the key duty holder at work, the organization really should focus on identifying potential or foreseeable disruptive events, although foreseeable might be more loose here in the sense that they could be less foreseeable. 

But, but if an organization can identify those disruptive events and what and which ones, I suppose, have a likely impact upon their operations geographically, where they operate, the industry they're in, then they can start to look at what would happen if these types of events did occur. 

I mean, COVID was a perfect example. We know from history that viral outbreaks have occurred in the past. Data tells us they're more likely to occur again in the future. 

So disruptive events do have an element of science or calculation behind them. Businesses should have some knowledge of what disruptive events could occur, as I say that that are potentially foreseeable. 

And then really, it's about, I suppose, stress testing those in their organization. 

They can run scenario planning, and they can look at what policies and procedures they have in place to deal with them if they occur. 

A bit of good practice I've seen over the years is you don't really need complicated teams for each disruptive event. 

Most businesses that I've seen that have mature disruptive or, or business continuity plans in place, they'll have a central team that can deal with multiple disruptions. 

So, it's a bit like raising the alarm. 

You know, the what the event was that caused the alarm can be very different, but the reaction should always be really simple and effective. 

So, you could have an IT virus or you could have a bacterial or or you know, bacteria outbreak. Both events can trigger a similar command and control response within the organization. 

So, it's it's how organization simplify that response, how they scenario test it and how they identify the types of disruptions that they can have. 

Shaun: And be really clear on roles, responsibilities, process, the whole thing. 

I, I always find it quite interesting when I look back pre-COVID at risk registers and  often they had pandemic risk on them. 

But had it been tested? And when we needed to use it, how, for example, how easy was it to work to work from home, you know, were people set up to work from home? 

How had it actually been put through a, a, a real test? 

So I'm, I, I guess what I'm saying is I agree with your summing up of doing the assessment, look at the mitigations, but it's only then as good as the testing and the implementation and success measurement really before you can take a view on it. 

Ian: Yeah. 

So you're absolutely right with the risk registers. 

That's where our audit products will focus on ‘how have you identified the types of risk your business are exposed to’ and then looking at the approach to how you're implementing those systems and those control measures to effectively deal with it. 

And, and as you said, the coordination, communication of the response is key, giving responsibilities to the individuals, but also empowering people to feel safe when these events occur just so the employer is providing the support mechanisms for the employees that are going to deal with a lot of these disruptive events. 

Shaun: And so, as we said earlier on, you're relatively new to the British Safety Council and we are relatively fresh into ‘26. 

So, what's the main vision for your role, you looking ahead and what are you excited about for this year? 

Ian: I'm really excited, firstly just to be at the British Safety Council, feel very privileged to have the role that I have. 

The people here have been so welcoming and I'm starting to meet a lot of our associates and customers as well, which is great. 

So, this year is about getting to know our customers more, getting to understand them more and what their needs are. 

And then I'm really excited this year that we have plans for a review of our audit products, which is great. 

It's due this year, so it's great timing for me to come in and be part of that review. 

So, another reason why I'm really looking forward to meeting our customers is to get that feedback to you know further enhance the audit product this year and I'm really excited for what that that will bring. 

Shaun: I think that is going to be really exciting. I've worked, I've had a long standing relationship with the British Safety Council around the audit, awards etcetera. 

And I think hearing that you will be going out and getting customer perspectives will be very well received point 1; point 2 the fact that you're going to do a, a, a refresh of the audit and the audit products. 

I think is, is going to be great. 

What I'm not putting you on the spot here... but I am. 

What do you think or what's your thinking about where you might make changes? 

Are you thinking that there might be a more cultural edge, a more behavioural edge? 

You're going to go deeper technically or a bit of everything. 

Ian: I think again, like we've just talked about, it's being led by the customer and who is the customer? 

I mean, the the industry we're working, I've just said that there are so many different businesses and health and safety is so broad. 

So, actually, I think the key success metric here is having a product that truly reflects different organizations that it can be flexed to those different ones. 

And I often think of this ‘risk profiling’, you could even have two competitors in the same industry, but actually their risk profile is different. 

So, we need a product that can reflect the true operational risk of our clients and then we needed to give insights and data that can drive improvements for them without being too onerous. 

We you know, we all know we could have a shopping list of 100 actions for a business to try and improve risk management. 

The reality is they're going to focus on three, maybe five if we're lucky. 

So, we've really got to be better at highlighting short term actionable insights and representing those customers' needs that we that we have. 

Shaun: So, for those people out there that are maybe not familiar with the five-star audit and the audit products and they may be thinking about ISO products as well. 

And there's a potential a bit of fatigue around auditing fatigue and checklists... how, how do you position and and differentiate the two? 

Is it an either/or or a both? 

Are you, what's your, what's your position on that? 

Ian: I think you know the ISO products obviously globally known and there is an element of those integrating well for customers to see that an organization has those systems in place. 

And as a lead auditor for 9 and 45, I've got experience of those products. 

I think they're really good. 

The British Safety Council products I think can build upon those pieces to sort of focus on the operational risk as well. 

So, I'm really keen for our audit products to measure value and measure risk in businesses to give more operational insights and, and compare what they do operational level against the management system. 

So, I'm a big fan of the process and then the related procedures that you put in place within organizations to manage risk. But then it's really important that that is, you know, tested and observed to see how that applies when actually the workers are exposed to those risks during their activities. 

Shaun: Very good. 

I know with my involvement with the British Safety Council, the international market has become much more integrated into British Safety Council. 

Particularly when I think about Indian clients, I think about clients from the UAE, etcetera. 

Then there's also been comments and feedback around sector specific awards and sector specific products. 

Have you got any thinking on that? 

And as I said, for anybody listening to this, this is just me putting Ian on the spot of his current thinking rather than holding anybody, anybody's feet to the flame. 

Ian: Yeah, thank you. No, it's fine. 

Of course. Yeah, absolutely. 

I think it's a similar answer to what I was just saying that it is important that the audit reflects the industry and the operations that business operates in. 

If we, if we capture the data as we do and then we can present it back to that client, It's important they can, I suppose, benchmark or look at themselves against people within their industry from, from data that they're given. 

But I, I think one of the best things about health and safety is that almost transparency around knowledge sharing, which is back to science. 

You know, that's the, the, the, the crux of sciences. 

We share knowledge to improve. So, I'd love to be in a position with our audit to be able to share insights from different industries that are relevant to people. 

So, I think I think there is a need to have potentially a product and awards that reflect those industry specific customers or industries. 

But it's really important that we look at actually, you know, if you're looking at contractor management, contractor management and good contractor management is possibly the very similar across different industries. 

The application might be different, but the expectations or best practices can be often shared. 

So there's, there's a balance there that might sound a bit vague at the moment, but as I say, we're in the early phase of review this year. 

Shaun: I on personal reflections I said I'm a big fan of the British Safety Council. 

I've, I've been for years, one area where I've often thought they could step it up to the next level is collaboration, cross sector collaboration, best practice sharing different perspectives. 

And that's not criticism because I know we do that. 

But I think with someone in a role like yours, you, you can be much more. 

There can be much more of a catalyst to that and sharing and actually use the organization and its members to drive continued improvement and to keep pushing the bar up and up and up. 

Ian: That's it. I think with the technologies we have this day and age, it's to facilitate that knowledge sharing. We can be better at that. 

So, I think we do do it, but we can be better. 

We can be better at capturing that insight information and data and then sharing that insight, information, data. So yeah, absolutely. 

Shaun: Good stuff. 

So if we look out for the rest of this year and into the the future, into the next two or three years, have you got a vision yet for, for what you for what you're going to be focusing and what you want your next two or three years to look like? 

Or are you still in the shaping phase of that? 

Ian: Yeah, I, I have some rough ideas of that. 

It would be really silly of me to share anything, you know, specific on that because so, the key part of this success is listening to the people around you. 

So, I've got, I think it's a tough one, isn't it? 

It feels just recently I've been talking to lots of the colleagues internally about the products and the software that we can use. 

It's important that I don't shape that with what I think is right. 

Shaun: And you have two months in right at the minute you kind of literally in your kind of the classic 90-day kind of listen and learn phase. 

Ian: So, I'm almost purposefully not sharing details with anyone of what I think that could be. 

But I, I, I think the industry I, I, I say I do have a bit of an accountancy background as well. 

I've got strange educational background in a way. I almost became an accountant before safety. 

When I look at the finance industry and we take audit, for example, we had the financial crash in 2008 and lots of organizations that that crashed had been audited and had passed. 

So, they've had to self-reflect on the product. 

They've had to self-reflect on the practice of auditing and they've gone through that learning curve. 

I do think there's something out there where there are people questioning value of audit. 

So, I think we can learn a lot from that because audit is valuable. 

We know that it's about how we drive that value back into the industry and the technologies that the financial institutes use is also very good. 

So, I can allude to those ideas of what they're doing. 

So, if people are familiar with some of the techniques and practices and software that industry's using, which is tried and tested, so that's a safe bet.  

That's where I'm looking. 

But I'm not saying that's, you know, this is helping safely, that's speaking we'll be better than the financiers. 

Shaun: I'm really pleased to hear that you are in your 90-day discovery phase, but obviously it would be remiss of us to not listen to customers. 

So, if there are people out there listening who want to give some input, feedback, comments, share their experiences, how, how best can they do that? 

Ian: Yeah, please do get in touch. 

Obviously if, if you are connected with me on LinkedIn, please feel free to drop me a note or, or send information. 

If you have a relationship with your account manager, if you're an existing British Safety Council customer, please just drop them a note as well. 

We're, we're really keen to get stakeholder input. 

We have been carrying out research for some time now before I joined, but obviously I'm going to evaluate that feedback to make sure there's no gaps and you can never have enough. 

So please send in your thoughts and ideas and suggestions. 

Thank you. 

Shaun: That's great. 

You heard that here. Open, open and willingness to listen. So do take advantage of that. 

Ian: Certainly true. We have to, don't we? 

Customer first. I know it's an old adage, but it's still true. 

Shaun: Very good. 

So, Ian, as we bring this episode to a close, then each episode I like to ask our guests what one take away they'd like the listener to have from this conversation. 

So, what's yours? 

Ian: So, I think my one take away would be that proportionate health and safety, if it's properly integrated into a business can enable improved individual and organizational performance. 

Shaun: Very good. 

Well, thank you for joining us. 

Thank you for sharing your insight. 

I really look forward to watching with interest, your journey and the the the way that you progress the the products and your relationship at the Bridge Safety Council. 

So, thank you again. 

Ian: Thank you.